Just ran across this little gem . . .
398 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO. 00-5682-CI-11 2 3 4 DELL LIEBREICH, as Personal 5 Representative of the ESTATE OF LISA McPHERSON, 6 7 Plaintiff, 8 vs. VOLUME 4 9 CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, JANIS 10 JOHNSON, ALAIN KARTUZINSKI and DAVID HOUGHTON, D.D.S., 11 Defendants. 12 _______________________________________/ 13 14 15 PROCEEDINGS: Defendants' Omnibus Motion for Terminating Sanctions and Other Relief. 16 CONTENTS: Testimony of Frank Oliver. 17 DATE: July 15, 2002. Afternoon Session. 18 PLACE: Courtroom B, Judicial Building 19 St. Petersburg, Florida. 20 BEFORE: Honorable Susan F. Schaeffer, Circuit Judge. 21 REPORTED BY: Lynne J. Ide, RMR. 22 Deputy Official Court Reporter, Sixth Judicial Circuit of Florida.
21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 Q All right, and do you see that this 1991 23 Executive -- HCO admin letter of 1991 cancels a variety of 24 policies, including some that -- policy issues, including 25 some that relate to the Guardian's Office that had been 1 issued previously by Mr. Hubbard? Do you see that? 2 A I see what it says. But I don't know if -- I 3 don't know this to be a true or authorized cancellation of 4 anything. 5 Q Well, I mean, you are -- is it your position that 6 the Church, in 1991, wasn't permitted to issue this policy? 7 Is that what you're saying? 8 A I would -- at the time, had I been shown this 9 policy letter at the time, I would have queried the issuing 10 authority to cancel a policy letter or -- or cancel the use 11 of any policy letter that was written by L. Ron Hubbard, as 12 a normal staff member would have done if he was in question 13 as to the authority of the issue. 14 THE COURT: What is, I guess, AVC Int? 15 MR. MOXON: It is a part of the Church called 16 Authorization Verification -- 17 THE COURT: What is it? 18 MR. MOXON: Authorization Verification. It is 19 a part of the Church that authorizes policy to be 20 issued. That is what that is. 21 THE COURT: It says here -- look at this, 22 Counsel. It says a whole bunch of these -- most, 23 really, weren't even written by Mr. Hubbard. 24 MR. WEINBERG: What, your Honor? 25 THE COURT: Well, it says none of the following 1 issues were written by -- 2 MR. WEINBERG: Those weren't. 3 THE COURT: -- L. Ron -- 4 MR. WEINBERG: But the ones that have to do 5 with the Guardian were. 6 MR. DANDAR: It doesn't say that, Judge. And I 7 think now they opened the door to try to make 8 Mr. Oliver an expert witness. 9 THE COURT: No, I don't think so. I think 10 they've asked him whether or not he's familiar with 11 this. I don't know whether he is or he isn't. 12 But it was of great interest to me because I 13 now see that policy letters -- they'll have a little 14 tougher time showing those were scriptures because 15 if you can change something, well, you can't claim 16 it is scripture. 17 MR. LIEBERMAN: Well, your Honor, that is a 18 matter for RTC and David Miscavige. Not for 19 Mr. Oliver. 20 THE COURT: We'll see. It might be a matter 21 for the courts and -- it might be a matter the 22 courts will have to decide. 23 I'm telling you, you have policy letters that 24 have always been determined to be scripture. David 25 Miscavige in his own affidavit said that if it is 1 not written, it is not the word. In David 2 Miscavige's own declaration it's going to talk about 3 the inability to change the scripture of L. Ron 4 Hubbard and the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. 5 So if it is something that can be changed, it 6 is not scripture. If it is not scripture, it is not 7 protected by the First Amendment. 8 MR. LIEBERMAN: Your Honor -- 9 THE COURT: I mean, a policy of any corporation 10 is subject to interpretation, it is subject to 11 challenge, it is subject to all kinds of things. 12 MR. LIEBERMAN: Your Honor, with due respect, I 13 do not see how the Court is going to sit here and 14 determine for itself what the policy of the Church 15 of Scientology is or how it is going to permit 16 anyone other than -- than who is in charge of the 17 Church now to determine what the policy of the 18 Church now is. 19 THE COURT: Well, then let's say this. 20 Mr. Reiss is connected with AVC how? If this policy 21 was changed by AVC, who is it in charge of it? Who 22 is it? That is the person that will have to come 23 in -- be careful where you tread, Counselor.